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	<title>Comments on: Hiring Felons to do Computer Security?</title>
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	<link>http://blaynesucks.com/2009/10/13/hiring-felons-to-do-computer-security</link>
	<description>and other thoughts on group stupidity..</description>
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		<title>By: Six Lines &#124; Point-Counterpoint: Hiring Hackers</title>
		<link>http://blaynesucks.com/2009/10/13/hiring-felons-to-do-computer-security/comment-page-1#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator>Six Lines &#124; Point-Counterpoint: Hiring Hackers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blaynesucks.com/?p=765#comment-374</guid>
		<description>[...] Schneier and Marcus Ranum discuss a topic I&#8217;ve commented on before: Should you hire a convicted felon to do computer security work? Although this article appears as a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Schneier and Marcus Ranum discuss a topic I&#8217;ve commented on before: Should you hire a convicted felon to do computer security work? Although this article appears as a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Massey</title>
		<link>http://blaynesucks.com/2009/10/13/hiring-felons-to-do-computer-security/comment-page-1#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Massey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blaynesucks.com/?p=765#comment-191</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know your friend, but I often get this sort of feedback when I talk with people in person about this.  It&#039;s pretty important and I should have addressed it in the post.  A lot of people have friends who did mischievous things with computers when they were younger and ended up getting hired to do computer security work later.  Folks often hold their friends up as counter examples to the argument, so I&#039;ll try and address that situation generally in this comment.

When you say that your friend &quot;spent his early career hacking into government agencies&#039; systems,&quot; you sort of imply that he was being paid to do this.  If it was legitimate work, then that&#039;s just another penetration testing job, and I would say more power to him, particularly if he&#039;s getting paid big bucks!  If it was not legitimate work and he wasn&#039;t being paid, then it could range from simply mischievous behavior to a relatively minor offense or misdemeanor.  This is by far the most common case in conversations like this.  Again, I don&#039;t know your friend, but many non-technical people have computer literate friends who dazzle them with fish stories about incredible feats of computer security.  I&#039;ve heard some rather preposterous tales, and although I have become rather skeptical about the stories, I would not consider telling such tales disqualifying in terms of employment.  

Of course, it is also possible your friend did some more serious &quot;grey hat&quot; sort of activities.  A good example of this is &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Soghoian#Fake_boarding_pass_incident&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Christopher Soghoian&#039;s boarding pass incident&lt;/a&gt;.  Was it strictly legal?  Yes.  Was it ethically dubious?  That&#039;s another question altogether.  More importantly, is this the sort of thing I&#039;m talking about in this post?  No.  I&#039;m talking about actual criminals -- people who have chosen to willfully violate the law and commit crimes for money or power.  These are people who are doing it for a living, either to get rich quick or as a day job.  I &lt;em&gt;very strongly&lt;/em&gt; suspect that this does not describe your friend, who may fall into the &quot;grey hat&quot; category at worst.

Now, if your friend was an actual criminal who sought to make a career out of computer fraud, I would find it extraordinarily hard to hire him to do computer security work, particularly if he was charged, tried, and convicted for computer fraud.  &lt;em&gt;This should be obvious.&lt;/em&gt;  There are simply too many good people out there without the criminal baggage.

Thanks for the comment!  I really should have been more clear about that in the post.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know your friend, but I often get this sort of feedback when I talk with people in person about this.  It&#8217;s pretty important and I should have addressed it in the post.  A lot of people have friends who did mischievous things with computers when they were younger and ended up getting hired to do computer security work later.  Folks often hold their friends up as counter examples to the argument, so I&#8217;ll try and address that situation generally in this comment.</p>
<p>When you say that your friend &#8220;spent his early career hacking into government agencies&#8217; systems,&#8221; you sort of imply that he was being paid to do this.  If it was legitimate work, then that&#8217;s just another penetration testing job, and I would say more power to him, particularly if he&#8217;s getting paid big bucks!  If it was not legitimate work and he wasn&#8217;t being paid, then it could range from simply mischievous behavior to a relatively minor offense or misdemeanor.  This is by far the most common case in conversations like this.  Again, I don&#8217;t know your friend, but many non-technical people have computer literate friends who dazzle them with fish stories about incredible feats of computer security.  I&#8217;ve heard some rather preposterous tales, and although I have become rather skeptical about the stories, I would not consider telling such tales disqualifying in terms of employment.  </p>
<p>Of course, it is also possible your friend did some more serious &#8220;grey hat&#8221; sort of activities.  A good example of this is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Soghoian#Fake_boarding_pass_incident" rel="nofollow">Christopher Soghoian&#8217;s boarding pass incident</a>.  Was it strictly legal?  Yes.  Was it ethically dubious?  That&#8217;s another question altogether.  More importantly, is this the sort of thing I&#8217;m talking about in this post?  No.  I&#8217;m talking about actual criminals &#8212; people who have chosen to willfully violate the law and commit crimes for money or power.  These are people who are doing it for a living, either to get rich quick or as a day job.  I <em>very strongly</em> suspect that this does not describe your friend, who may fall into the &#8220;grey hat&#8221; category at worst.</p>
<p>Now, if your friend was an actual criminal who sought to make a career out of computer fraud, I would find it extraordinarily hard to hire him to do computer security work, particularly if he was charged, tried, and convicted for computer fraud.  <em>This should be obvious.</em>  There are simply too many good people out there without the criminal baggage.</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment!  I really should have been more clear about that in the post.  <img src='http://blaynesucks.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ellie</title>
		<link>http://blaynesucks.com/2009/10/13/hiring-felons-to-do-computer-security/comment-page-1#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blaynesucks.com/?p=765#comment-190</guid>
		<description>We actually have a friend who spent his early career hacking into government agcencies&#039; systems and now he gets paid ALOT of money to try to break into their systems and show them their flaws - I think he&#039;s still a criminal at heart :)...although now he&#039;s a very wealthy criminal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We actually have a friend who spent his early career hacking into government agcencies&#8217; systems and now he gets paid ALOT of money to try to break into their systems and show them their flaws &#8211; I think he&#8217;s still a criminal at heart <img src='http://blaynesucks.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> &#8230;although now he&#8217;s a very wealthy criminal</p>
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